What do you make of Miley Cyrus?
I like her. She seems like she doesn't care what people think. People are always telling her she's dirty or crazy or trashy, and she doesn't care. I love that about her. In her peer group, she stands out.

When you look back on your career, what part do you think you played in changing taboos about growing up female in America?
I don't think there was one part. I think it's an ongoing activity in my life. I'm continuing to open doors for the women behind me. I don't know many women who have had a successful career in pop music as long as I've had. And I waited until I was older to have children. I raised children and wasn't married. And I continue to express myself -- my sexuality -- in my 50s, even though that's also considered taboo, and I get a lot of shit for it. But in 20 years, Miley Cyrus probably won't get shit for it. Then, it'll be like, "Oh, yeah, that's nothing new."

快更

You name-check some of your most famous songs -- "Like a Virgin," "Justify My Love," "Ray of Light," to cite just a few -- on Rebel Heart's "Veni Vidi Vici," and you reference "Vogue" on the song "Holy Water." Why quote your own work?
I reference many things in pop culture, and I've written so many songs and had such a long career, that I end up referencing myself, too. If I can rip anybody off, I can rip me off.

On the title track, you talk about shedding your skin and never looking back. Do you really have no regrets?
Everyone has regrets. I have regrets for the smaller things, which ultimately are the bigger things in life. For instance, I regret not being more grateful certain times in my life. I regret not being more compassionate. I regret not saying I'm sorry. I don't have any career regrets. I have human-being regrets.

A lot of the songs on Rebel Heart feel incredibly intimate -- more intimate than the Madonna who usually comes off like a superhero.
As I say in the song "Joan of Arc," "even hearts made of steel can break down." Even people we look up to have their moments where they are fragile, vulnerable, scared, fearful, not sure, hurt. You can't be a superhero unless you have the other side.

You name-check some of your most famous songs -- "Like a Virgin," "Justify My Love," "Ray of Light," to cite just a few -- on Rebel Heart's "Veni Vidi Vici," and you reference "Vogue" on the song "Holy Water." Why quote your own work?
I reference many things in pop culture, and I've written so many songs and had such a long career, that I end up referencing myself, too. If I can rip anybody off, I can rip me off.

感觉麦奶说话还不错

好知性

On the album, you use the word "bitch" a lot ("Bitch I'm Madonna," "Unapologetic Bitch"), which some bloggers have suggested should be banned.
I think that's bullshit. The word police can f--- off. I don't want to be policed! I'm not interested in political correctness. The word "bitch" means a lot of different things. Everything is about context. When I first moved to England and heard the word "c--t," I was horrified. People were calling each other c--ts! And then I realized that, in that culture, it was different -- they slapped each other on the back and said, "Who's the c--t, right, you're my best mate!" The word "f---" doesn't just mean sexual intercourse. I mean, "You're a stupid f---," "Are you going to f--- with me?" "F-- off!" (Laughs.) Sex has nothing to do with any of those expressions, and the same goes for "bitch." If I say to you, "I'm a badass bitch," I'm owning myself, I'm saying, "I'm strong, I'm tough, and don't mess with me." If I say, "Why are you being such a bitch to me?," well, that means something else.

But isn't attention to language an important part of the new online discourse about race, gender and power?
OK, but that's another story. Language, and the use of language, is different than one human physically abusing somebody or bullying somebody, or killing somebody because of the color of their skin or their sexual preference or their religious beliefs. I don't think the two should get mixed up.

Why did you decide to write so much about sex and religion?
When have I not explored the politics of sex and religion? I'm just continuing with my studies.

What's your relationship with Catholicism at this point?
Catholicism feels like my alma mater. It's the school I used to go to, and I can go back any time I want and take whatever I want from it because I suffered all the oppression, and all the abuse -- and also enjoyed all the pomp and circumstance, the drama and the confusion and the hypocrisy and the craziness. I feel like I can say whatever I want and do whatever I want. I've been ex-communicated by the Catholic Church a few times. But I also feel like this new pope is kind of groovy, and I think we might be able to get together and have a chat about sex.

Do you think your views on sex have changed during the last, say, 25 years?
Absolutely not. Nope. Sex is a wonderful, necessary part of life.
Many of the songs on this album are so romantic. Do you see yourself getting married again?
Wait, what does romance have to do with getting married?
Don't they go hand in hand? That's what everybody says in America.
No, no. Stupid question! You can have a drink. (Pours shot.) First of all, everybody says it in America. What? Who are you talking about? Down it!